Recently I’ve been discussing fun vs mechanics in MMORPGs on one of my favorite forums. These days “fun” is the new buzz word and generally if you suggest something that is “not fun” players hit the wall. What I find interesting about this is that no two people can agree what fun is yet both with gladly defend it to the end. I want to look at why I believe “fun” for the sake of fun is a terrible design methodology (even if it is a major driving force behind my number one MMO crush, 38 Studios) and why I think mechanics are so important.
Fun is all that matters
In all honesty it isn’t and the sooner that everyone accepts that the better. MMORPGs, games, movies and television shows aren’t just about fun. They’re about entertaining you. Those two things aren’t always the same for everyone. For some they are. I concede that point. What I am getting at is that nothing can be fun all of the time. Despite that fact players and developers alike will push the fun envelope as much as they can while seemingly being ignorant to the fact that it is a short term solution. Think about all of the really fun games you play. The things I consider the most fun, (such as a tower defense game, a simple iPhone game, a Facebook game, etc) are generally a pretty shallow experience. They’re awesome but only for a short time.
Fun is extremely difficult to sustain on a long term basis for a large group of people. I enjoyed Epic Pet Wars on the iPhone. It was a lot of fun to play but it quickly proved to be repetitive and simplistic. The same is true the numerous games I played on Facebook and the random little applications I pull up on my phone from time to time. They’re great products but they’re not meant to be played for years. They are there to give you a quick burst of fun and that is it. We really must recognize this and accept it. Fun for the sake of fun just isn’t a long term strategy. The basic argument I hear against that is, “A developer just hasn’t figured it out yet. Wait and see MMORPG #10 will be fun. It won’t have any of these mechanics that aren’t fun.” I may be boiling that argument down but honestly who hasn’t heard that said 1000 different ways? the truth is you just aren’t wired to have fun for the entire duration of your entertainment experience, everyone is different, and this is nothing more than a buzz word used to by fan boys and developers. That is why games have had to come up with other methods to keep you going.
Extending the game through addiction
It might surprise players to learn that MMORPG developers frequently use the same psychological tools* as Casinos to keep us playing. You see it is easy to manipulate someone with the promise of fun and rewards. The trick is to set up a “jack pot” for the player to chase and then keep them playing with smaller rewards that give hope. The example I’ve previously used (and used by many before me) is the slot machine. Slot machines aren’t as simple as they used to be. These days there are many ways to win small prizes. They never amount to much but they give you hope and keep you playing.
Instances work the same way. Long after they’ve stopped being fun players will continue to do them. Each named has the chance to drop the item we really want but may, instead, drop one we want less or nothing at all. That named also might drop a token. We all know people who keep going back for the token just because eventually they’ll get something they want. These tactics are employed because of my previous point. You can’t perpetuate fun forever so you’ve got to have a back up plan to keep players going (or at least that is the current trend I see).
Mechanics are what games are made of
Building any type of product is like building a house. You have to have a strong foundation first. Fun and cool doesn’t really make for a strong foundation unfortunately. A game needs to have strong, clear mechanics before you worry about making it fun. Now this is directly in contrast to the opinions of some of my favorite developers. They argue that if you do what I suggest you can end up with a product that is sound but not fun at release. I’m not going to disagree there but I will say this. You can add fun easier than you can fix bad mechanics. Bad mechanics linger for years and only snow ball over time.
If your game was never designed for PvP and you add it later you’ll end up in the same mess EverQuest II is in. The product just isn’t ready for PvP and not surprisingly when battlegrounds released they were terribly unbalanced. SOE was immediately in catch up mode. The idea of fun trumped mechanics and you now have a company that spent a lot of money on a feature that they admit is under utilized. Fun is important but it cannot be all consuming. If the mechanics just aren’t there to make it work and work right you have to say no.
It is also important to accept that not all mechanics are fun but that they are necessary. Class balance isn’t really fun. Building a solid methodology by which loot is created isn’t fun either. Despite that, both of these mechanics are extremely important! When they’re done correctly it gives developers the solid foundation by which they can build fun content. This is a key area where a lot of developers seem to go wrong these days. The priority of mechanics is trumped by the desire to meet the shout of the crowd for fun.
Why bother playing then?
I’ve done my best to make the point that fun is transitory and short lived. I’ve also noted that developers play on our addictive nature to extend the life of a game once it is no longer fun. I’m certain the question will come up on how to make an MMORPG based on those points. I think the key is to treat them more like real life and less like a casual “fun” game. Allow players to achieve things over time that build value into the character and create a true attachment. EverQuest did an exceptional job of attaching a player to a character because everything was difficult to earn. Everything you had made you less likely to want to give that up. In every MMORPG I’ve played between EQ2 and EQ2 again I could care less about my character. I feel zero attachment to them. They achieved nothing of note despite being max level and geared well. Yet in EQ1 I was extremely attached to Ferrel and still am to this day. Why is that?
EverQuest certainly used some of the addictive tactics I mentioned. It also used the model of the game being more difficult so that everything felt more valuable. It also used mechanics that these days most people would cause players froth at the mouth and shout over. If you listen to a lot of players, (particularly those that NEVER played EverQuest), it was not fun and the worst MMORPG ever made. Strangely enough players who actually played EQ early on seemed to almost universally enjoy it. The community is basically split between “Early EQers” and “Never Played its.” What made it so fun?
I think the answer comes down to achievement. EverQuest let you work hard and earn things. MMORPGs these days GIVE us things. It isn’t a matter of IF. It is a matter of WHEN. It EverQuest you could most certainly fail to get something you wanted and that wasn’t just at the high end. If you weren’t skilled enough or were unwilling to put in the time you would simply not get it. MMORPGs these days seem to make everything a given if you just constantly play the game. Outside of a few examples you will hit the jackpot on your slot machine at some point. I have no real sense of accomplishment and that is what is fun for me. To others that might be boring and that is exactly my point.
Fun is too subjective. Fun is different for every person. Asking if an MMORPG is fun or trying to ensure that it is first just doesn’t make a lot of sense. If “fun” overrides mechanics you’re in for a long term problem. Going forwards I think we as players need to elaborate more on what fun means exactly. If you want the next MMORPG to be fun explain exactly what that is!
*This article references an article on cracked. Unfortunately that article no longer seems to be available. This was as close as I could get to the original and quotes from it.
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“If you listen to a lot of players, (particularly those that NEVER played EverQuest), it was not fun and the worst MMORPG ever made. Strangely enough players who actually played EQ early on seemed to almost universally enjoy it. The community is basically split between “Early EQers” and “Never Played its.” What made it so fun?”
- Ferrel
I love that comment. It hit exactly the point I was commenting on in your previous post about quest hubs. Wolfshead had a similar post to this about Fun vs. Function awhile back that was extremely well written too. I really do think that it simply comes down to fundamental beliefs on what a game should be (i.e. – “Early EQers” vs. “Never Played Its”). Sadly, the latter group mentioned happens to be quite a bit more vocal and larger than those of us who want a meaningful gaming experience. No matter how much we argue the pros and cons in a businesslike and diligent fashion, we will always get overheard by those screaming their game ideas are better and needs no change. However, I will admit, the former group has been growing slowly over the years.
I sort of liken this New Gen MMO phenomena to a screaming fat little boy at the grocery store. He wants that box of fruit roll-ups but his mother knows he doesn’t need the extra sweets so she tells him “no.” Everyone knows this kid. He will kick and scream all the way to the check-out isle until his mom turns around and gets him what he wants just to shut him up and make him happy, even though she knows its no good for him. I know I may be generalizing but this is generally how I feel developers deal with those “casuals” who want everything the “hardcore” have without putting in the same work. I know their counter-argument already; “This is a game, therefore it should be FUN, not work!” BUT THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN FUN IS MEASURED IN GEAR AND ITEMS RATHER THAN ACCOMPLISHMENTS. These players sign off their respective games thinking they had fun because they got that new epic… great; however, those players with the urge for better, more challenging content and a sense of community will just remain empty inside. To top it all off, these challenge chasers will still have people in their face screaming, “If you don’t like it, go play a niche game and quit your bitching!” Going back to my grocery store example, this would be the same as this fat little boy slapping his mother across her face after she hands him the fruit roll-up box. I say this because, as original EQers or MUDers, or whatever came first, we drove the MMO market to where it is today, until one day, someone high up decided they wanted more subscriptions and less work.
Okay, well /rant off.
How I feel exactly, good post. The community is steadily changing from “old timer” mmo players to the New generation, and the new generation wants everything for practically nothing. So that trickles down to quantity over quality when it comes to things. I am starting to become a niche game player, just cause I can’t take the dumbing down of games I love.
“MMORPGs these days seem to make everything a given if you just constantly play the game.”
Of course. That way you keep people playing, since there’s always an assurance of success somewhen later (the vagueness is key; it’s why the RNG underneath loot pinatas work, too). If you tell them they need skills (or more subtly, that they *must* spend X amount of time or gather so many emblems), there’s inevitably a point where they leave, whether it’s because of their own skill not being up to the task or the perception that the system is unfair or too time consuming. Never mind that the system might *actually be* unfair or the grind too lengthy, you don’t want to call attention to that fact. Keep the little rewards coming and always keep the tease that something else is just around the corner with One… More… Month…
If you want a skill-based game you need to allow players to proceed at their own pace, and that means no dicking around with subscriptions and the vain promise of equality for all. Give players a challenge and let them go to town on it at their own pace. If they get it, great! If not, they aren’t being penalized with continued payments, effectively making them pay (literally with time and money) for their lack of skill.
Very well said Tesh!
Interesting topic, I also enjoyed Eq1 a lot and I hit the glass ceiling in the late Gates of Discord when my play time became limited and I could not keep up with my guild or friends. I am one of those horrible casuals that demand the same rewards as the more hardcore players and I do it from the simple fact that it was more or less impossible to get a PuG (at least on AB) in the later TSO era as the players more or less DEMANDED that you have T2 armor and demanded that you have your epic to group with you, and I talked to a lot of people who felt horribly excluded and that is not Fun. I can accept that I will never see soandso instance but I can never accept that I will feel excluded when playing a game I pay for and I think this is the issue that more hardcore players do not understand. In EQ1 you had no other options as a casual player than to say “Ohh and Ahh” to the fancy gear linked in guild chat, nowadays the casual market is big (probably very big as all SOEs activities lately seems to be aimed at the casuals).
Unfortunately SOEs earlier (ROK, TSO and at least parts of SF) design ideas seems to be that casual players will just accept endless boring soloquests as “good enough content” and happily pay full subscription for that and either not care or notice that huge chunks of the game is simply unavailable to them I do not have a solution but the fact remains I have met 100s of casual players during my time on AB, none play nowadays and I have a strong suspicion that the EQ2EX is a kneejerk reaction to the fact that EQ2 has problems keeping the casuals subscribing for longer periods of time.
So where does this leave us then? Well the only real solution I can see is to either go the LOTRO way and charge separately for everything, if I can not get into the TSO instances because of player made exclusions or not being Uber enough I do not want to pay for them either, or lower the subscription fees to $ 7.99 or something for people who play less than 20 hours a month. Or maybe do the even more brave path and separate servers by playstyle have servers where you can not play more than whatever hours per month on your account.
But we casuals complain about the facts that THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE FUN BUT THE GEAR AND ITEM GRIND TO GET THE NEEDED STUFF EXCLUDES THE CASUAL PLAYERS.
Sigtyr you made some valid points, but…there are a few that I don’t agree with.
First, to get this out of the way I am a person who can spend 40+ hours a week gaming. (and yes I am employed).
I get tired a little of those who cannot play the game as much wanting the same as those who do. A game is meant to be played, if you aren’t going to be in it, then why play it? A game has goals, objectives, armor to get…and if you can’t be there to get as much as those who can, why should you get something that someone else has worked their butt off for? Wouldn’t this give you incentive to log in and work to get those items? Give you a reason to log in? It is why i am a big fan of DKP on raids, you are rewarded for the time spent.
I get your point about item grinding/epics etc. That is unfortunate that people look at gear that closely, I know I don’t even on raids I don’t exclude people who have lesser gear. However, in my opinion, a game should not be designed to give a casual player easier access to gear and items…a game should be designed with the idea that there will be casual players. There should not be a “need” for them to be totally geared out to do a group. That is a major design flaw imo. I think developers should stop giving casuals the same rewards as the harder core people unless they do the same amount of work (yes with less time in game it will take longer), but at the same time develop content that does not require that hardcore armor. Can it be done? I don’t know.
I do know however, that getting the mythical in T8 (when we were still in rok/tso) was a huge goal for my guild. It took us 6 months starting with under-geared folks with no epics or myths, and working up from PR to VP. We are a casual raid guild with people who only log in for the 4 hours to raid and maybe an hour or two here and there. We got everyone updated in 2 nights (back when VP was still locked by wings), it was a huge feeling for everyone to go from scratch to beat all of VP in two nights and get the entire guild mythed. After that, we lost many people because they had no other goals. They had a feeling of beating the game and were done…for over a year it was focusing on getting their myth. Since then, we have not had a goal or feeling like it. I think goals are a good thing, if you want a piece of armor, you log in to get it…if it’s given to you..sure you can group, but really the journey is the adventure…not the destination.
Good topic Ferrel
Fun for me is logging in, and playing with my friends…weather we are decorating a house, killing a raid mob, or running around PLing an alt…whatever. That is fun imo the social aspect of the game. I know for many it is different.
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Starseeker had a lot of good points but the big issue here is (at least for me) that it is very hard to attain any goals (worth doing) as a casual player in any reasonable time and when you attain your goal the reply from guildies and people you group with is “well that one is not good anymore you should be using xxxxxx instead”. So what is offered to casual player is dumbed down soloquests and IF those quests would reward good equipment the hardcore players screams in rage. My feeling is that the casual players are needed as a subscription base for most MMOS but the players in the game would prefer them to just be quiet and pay for things that they never will be able to attain. Maybe the solution is to charge players by time spent in game or increasing RMT (I would LOVE to be able to buy my epic and raid armor just to xxxx people off).
I do not think that making special content for casuals is a solution as that content will either be way to easy and give lousy equipment (and then it will be Looking for more for soandso instance no casual equipment allowed and that would increase the chasm between casual and hardcores even more) or immediately be exploited by hardcore players.
Different servers for different playstyles maybe.
But it is a total lack of communication and understanding between players of different playstyles.
Although I did cancel my EQ2 subscription yesterday, there is nothing for me to do in EQ2 and I will not attain any of my goals so why subscribe?