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	<title>Comments on: The decline of the MMO Guild</title>
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	<link>http://www.epicslant.com/2009/07/the-decline-of-the-mmo-guild/</link>
	<description>MMO design and industry commentary with a high end twist.</description>
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		<title>By: BloggersBase Gaming</title>
		<link>http://www.epicslant.com/2009/07/the-decline-of-the-mmo-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-1203</link>
		<dc:creator>BloggersBase Gaming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epicslant.com/?p=879#comment-1203</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The Decline of the MMO Guild...&lt;/strong&gt;

Lately I’ve been immersing myself in the discussions going on regarding the struggle between the pro-solo and pro-group camps of MMO players......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Decline of the MMO Guild&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Lately I’ve been immersing myself in the discussions going on regarding the struggle between the pro-solo and pro-group camps of MMO players&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Psychochild's Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.epicslant.com/2009/07/the-decline-of-the-mmo-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-966</link>
		<dc:creator>Psychochild's Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epicslant.com/?p=879#comment-966</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Punishing grouping...&lt;/strong&gt;

The issue of grouping vs. soling has been going on for a while.  The fashion has been to be a defiantly proud soloer ranting against the a faceless group that wants to force everyone to group up. (http://stylishcorpse.wordpress.com/2009/07/04/declaring...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Punishing grouping&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>The issue of grouping vs. soling has been going on for a while.  The fashion has been to be a defiantly proud soloer ranting against the a faceless group that wants to force everyone to group up. (<a href="http://stylishcorpse.wordpress.com/2009/07/04/declaring.." rel="nofollow">http://stylishcorpse.wordpress.com/2009/07/04/declaring..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: /AFK &#8211; July 5 &#171; Bio Break</title>
		<link>http://www.epicslant.com/2009/07/the-decline-of-the-mmo-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-957</link>
		<dc:creator>/AFK &#8211; July 5 &#171; Bio Break</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epicslant.com/?p=879#comment-957</guid>
		<description>[...] Wrap yourself up in a huge blanket of words, courtesy of Ferrel, who puts guilds on the endangered species list. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wrap yourself up in a huge blanket of words, courtesy of Ferrel, who puts guilds on the endangered species list. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ferrel</title>
		<link>http://www.epicslant.com/2009/07/the-decline-of-the-mmo-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-955</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferrel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epicslant.com/?p=879#comment-955</guid>
		<description>@Yasharros

You&#039;re absolutely right on the guild vs raiding situation. I did not intend for them to be a synonym of sorts. That said, I was more taking an EQ perspective when I write about the player organizations. At that time guilds truly were focused heavily on avoiding poor players and raiding. That is not really the case any longer.

I also hope I did not insinuate that solo players are in some way inferior or terrible. My point is that all players are being trained to see other players as a hindrance and not to work with them. I did a poll in my guild prior to writing this article and asked how they felt if they were doing a solo quest and saw someone they didn&#039;t know killing the same mobs. They were unanimous in stating they felt that person was in the way.  When we solo in an MMO we seem to focus far more on &quot;me&quot; and less on &quot;us.&quot; I just don&#039;t want to confuse play style attitudes with personality. They are very different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Yasharros</p>
<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right on the guild vs raiding situation. I did not intend for them to be a synonym of sorts. That said, I was more taking an EQ perspective when I write about the player organizations. At that time guilds truly were focused heavily on avoiding poor players and raiding. That is not really the case any longer.</p>
<p>I also hope I did not insinuate that solo players are in some way inferior or terrible. My point is that all players are being trained to see other players as a hindrance and not to work with them. I did a poll in my guild prior to writing this article and asked how they felt if they were doing a solo quest and saw someone they didn&#8217;t know killing the same mobs. They were unanimous in stating they felt that person was in the way.  When we solo in an MMO we seem to focus far more on &#8220;me&#8221; and less on &#8220;us.&#8221; I just don&#8217;t want to confuse play style attitudes with personality. They are very different.</p>
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		<title>By: Declaring my independence &#171; Stylish Corpse</title>
		<link>http://www.epicslant.com/2009/07/the-decline-of-the-mmo-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-954</link>
		<dc:creator>Declaring my independence &#171; Stylish Corpse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epicslant.com/?p=879#comment-954</guid>
		<description>[...] people have done some fascinating posts about guilds &#8212; here most recently, and here and of course a fair few of my own (I guess I write about this a lot: here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] people have done some fascinating posts about guilds &#8212; here most recently, and here and of course a fair few of my own (I guess I write about this a lot: here [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ysharros</title>
		<link>http://www.epicslant.com/2009/07/the-decline-of-the-mmo-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-953</link>
		<dc:creator>Ysharros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epicslant.com/?p=879#comment-953</guid>
		<description>Fascinating article! I do, however, take issue with the now almost ubiquitous tacit equation of guild with raiding. Raiding is only one of the things guilds are good for -- in fact, I&#039;d argue that raiding NEEDS guilds but not necessarily the other way around. Guilds can and do exist for a long time with members who don&#039;t raid and even members who don&#039;t group all that often, but every attempt I&#039;ve made to illustrate that has had people telling me those aren&#039;t real guilds. Therefore, I guess, if it&#039;s not a raiding guild it&#039;s not a guild these days.

I&#039;m not entirely sure why I still bother trying to argue that the more solitary players like myself are NOT anti-social, poorly-adjusted basement mouth-breathers with no friend-making skills, despite my own many posts on the subject. 

I should really just have kept quiet. ;) Still, good post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating article! I do, however, take issue with the now almost ubiquitous tacit equation of guild with raiding. Raiding is only one of the things guilds are good for &#8212; in fact, I&#8217;d argue that raiding NEEDS guilds but not necessarily the other way around. Guilds can and do exist for a long time with members who don&#8217;t raid and even members who don&#8217;t group all that often, but every attempt I&#8217;ve made to illustrate that has had people telling me those aren&#8217;t real guilds. Therefore, I guess, if it&#8217;s not a raiding guild it&#8217;s not a guild these days.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not entirely sure why I still bother trying to argue that the more solitary players like myself are NOT anti-social, poorly-adjusted basement mouth-breathers with no friend-making skills, despite my own many posts on the subject. </p>
<p>I should really just have kept quiet. <img src='http://www.epicslant.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  Still, good post!</p>
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		<title>By: Korrow</title>
		<link>http://www.epicslant.com/2009/07/the-decline-of-the-mmo-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-952</link>
		<dc:creator>Korrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epicslant.com/?p=879#comment-952</guid>
		<description>I agree.

I loved the days of games where you could not solo unless you were skilled.

Yes, I played a Bard in EQ. I would solo hundred of mobs at a time, BUT it was a skill I developed, through many trials and errors. 

In Lineage 2, when it first came out. I was the Highest level character on the server with no one even close to me because I had the skills to do it. 

 Now he who has the most time, regardless of skill can solo effectively. 

 The difference between me and the average MMO player. I know how to solo and how to group, I choose to group mopst often because I like the social aspects, but I have the ability to do it alone if no one is around. THe average MMO player does not even know what a group is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree.</p>
<p>I loved the days of games where you could not solo unless you were skilled.</p>
<p>Yes, I played a Bard in EQ. I would solo hundred of mobs at a time, BUT it was a skill I developed, through many trials and errors. </p>
<p>In Lineage 2, when it first came out. I was the Highest level character on the server with no one even close to me because I had the skills to do it. </p>
<p> Now he who has the most time, regardless of skill can solo effectively. </p>
<p> The difference between me and the average MMO player. I know how to solo and how to group, I choose to group mopst often because I like the social aspects, but I have the ability to do it alone if no one is around. THe average MMO player does not even know what a group is.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfshead</title>
		<link>http://www.epicslant.com/2009/07/the-decline-of-the-mmo-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-950</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfshead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epicslant.com/?p=879#comment-950</guid>
		<description>Absolutely brilliant article! It should be printed out and pinned up in every cubicle at Blizzard&#039;s HQ in Irvine, CA.

The concept of player guilds in MMORPGs used to be a fundamental underpinning of why they become so popular. Without meaningful guilds back in EverQuest the lead designers of WoW would never have met and WoW would not have even existed.

The rise of solo gameplay as a device to broaden the demographic in order to make more money is at the root of the problem here. Solo gameplay erodes group gameplay. With less people grouping you have less qualified candidates for guilds. Without guilds you have no warm bodies to populate all of the premium instance content that provides the backdrop and purpose for WoW.

How long can the middle hold?

Blizzard is perilously close to the tipping point here. They are throwing the furniture in the fire to heat the house by continually cannibalizing the fundamentals of MMORPGs in order to pump up their subscription numbers. At this rate, it can&#039;t last forever as there will be nothing resembling a MMO as we know it in the near future.

Blizzard really needs a serious overhaul of guild management tools in WoW. They need to recognize the massive and vital contribution that guildmasters and officers make in their guilds. I&#039;d even go as far as giving a guildmaster free monthly access or a reduced subscription rate depending on how many guild members they have.

Your ideas for bolstering guilds and providing more features are good. Players need to be more loyal to their guilds instead of the rampant guild hopping that is so prevalent. There should be a special guild loyalty program -- the longer you are a member of a guild the more rewards you can purchase at a guild quartermaster which should be in the guild house -- still not available in WoW.

Tobold, commented that I&#039;m grumpy in a recent post of his. I don&#039;t deny it. The reason is after 10 years of having graphical MMOs I&#039;m despondent at how little we&#039;ve progressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely brilliant article! It should be printed out and pinned up in every cubicle at Blizzard&#8217;s HQ in Irvine, CA.</p>
<p>The concept of player guilds in MMORPGs used to be a fundamental underpinning of why they become so popular. Without meaningful guilds back in EverQuest the lead designers of WoW would never have met and WoW would not have even existed.</p>
<p>The rise of solo gameplay as a device to broaden the demographic in order to make more money is at the root of the problem here. Solo gameplay erodes group gameplay. With less people grouping you have less qualified candidates for guilds. Without guilds you have no warm bodies to populate all of the premium instance content that provides the backdrop and purpose for WoW.</p>
<p>How long can the middle hold?</p>
<p>Blizzard is perilously close to the tipping point here. They are throwing the furniture in the fire to heat the house by continually cannibalizing the fundamentals of MMORPGs in order to pump up their subscription numbers. At this rate, it can&#8217;t last forever as there will be nothing resembling a MMO as we know it in the near future.</p>
<p>Blizzard really needs a serious overhaul of guild management tools in WoW. They need to recognize the massive and vital contribution that guildmasters and officers make in their guilds. I&#8217;d even go as far as giving a guildmaster free monthly access or a reduced subscription rate depending on how many guild members they have.</p>
<p>Your ideas for bolstering guilds and providing more features are good. Players need to be more loyal to their guilds instead of the rampant guild hopping that is so prevalent. There should be a special guild loyalty program &#8212; the longer you are a member of a guild the more rewards you can purchase at a guild quartermaster which should be in the guild house &#8212; still not available in WoW.</p>
<p>Tobold, commented that I&#8217;m grumpy in a recent post of his. I don&#8217;t deny it. The reason is after 10 years of having graphical MMOs I&#8217;m despondent at how little we&#8217;ve progressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.epicslant.com/2009/07/the-decline-of-the-mmo-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-949</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epicslant.com/?p=879#comment-949</guid>
		<description>Here here.

Without the guild I wouldn&#039;t play. Though your right, with WoW, I am leveling much faster soloing, then I ever did in a group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here here.</p>
<p>Without the guild I wouldn&#8217;t play. Though your right, with WoW, I am leveling much faster soloing, then I ever did in a group.</p>
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